Webinar ·

Mortgage lead gen in the AI world

Is your mortgage lead gen strategy ready for 2025’s massive regulatory changes? In this eye-opening episode of the Lending Forward podcast, Evocalize CEO Matt Marx breaks down how AI and new TCPA regulations are revolutionizing lead generation in the mortgage industry.

The coming changes to TCPA regulations will dramatically impact how mortgage professionals generate and contact leads. Starting January 2025, new rules will restrict how leads can be sold and contacted, potentially disrupting traditional lead buying models.

But within this challenge lies an opportunity for forward-thinking mortgage professionals to build their own mortgage lead gen systems.

Matt explains why loan officers need to establish their online presence now, starting with one platform and focusing on educating local customers. While the lending industry has traditionally lagged behind in digital marketing, those who adapt quickly will gain a significant competitive advantage.

Perhaps most surprisingly, the new regulations could actually benefit loan officers in the long run. As lead aggregators face increased restrictions, individual mortgage professionals have an unprecedented opportunity to build their own lead generation systems. With the right technology and compliance measures in place, this could lead to more efficient and cost-effective marketing strategies.

Key takeaways

Here are the key takeaways from this webinar around mortgage lead gen:

Resources

Mortgage lead gen with AI and machine learning

Transcript

Hannah McManus
Welcome to the Lending Forward podcast, brought to you by Atlantic Bay Mortgage Group. This is your home for real discussions about the mortgage and housing industry. Our hosts are here bringing you first-hand accounts every week from people at the heart of the business.

And we’re chatting with professionals from all corners of the industry, as they help cultivate transparency around the future of the industry we love. Together, we are lending forward all we know to you. Thanks for joining us for today’s episode.

Let’s dive in. Welcome back to another episode of Lending Forward. I am hosting today Hannah McManus. And I’m joined today with Matthew Marx. Matthew is the CEO of Evocalize. And Matthew, first of all, do you go by Matt or Matthew?

Matt Marx
Matt is good. Matt is good.

Hannah McManus
So I was looking for a bio of you, and you don’t have one on your website actually, but I did find a little bit about you on your LinkedIn. And I laughed because it says that you’re a technical business leader focused on building and operating high growth and disruptive products and businesses, which I love because we’re gonna talk all about AI and digital marketing and how to disrupt the market. So welcome to the podcast.

Matt Marx
Thank you. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to chat. And yeah, we try not to put our bios too front and center. We kind of want our customers to take the spotlight. And so sorry, you found some marketing speak about me somewhere in the bowels of LinkedIn, I guess we’re supposed to do it a little bit.

Hannah McManus
Well, that’s okay, because you can probably do yourself more justice than a website can anyway. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Where do you come from? How did you end up in this mortgage lending landscape?

Matt Marx
Yeah, thanks. So I actually started my career a long time ago as an engineer. So I was a software engineer and then kind of a product manager.

And so I started in this like product, software product arena way back in the dot-com era and kind of went through that path and hit a number of industries. And then I ended up through that process working with some really innovative software companies that ended up kind of doing some pretty cool things up in different industries. But then I kind of wanted to explore some new things.

And so I went after my MBA in Boston, I went in and worked in a strategy consulting for a number of years and then ended up in the investment management industry where I was, where that a large multi-strat, $50 billion plus investment fund and working on kind of venture capital portfolio and some other investing strategies through the financial collapse, which is a really 2008 collapse, which is really interesting. Some interesting stories there, but I won’t get into now.

But then one of my portfolio companies was kind of taking off. And so I went, moved back down from Boston to Austin, Texas and a company called Bazaarvoice, we ended up, a marketing technology company ended up helping to take it public back in 2012. And through that, that was a really exciting ride.

We went like 50 people to a thousand people in like three years. So it was pretty crazy. And as a part of that, I really kind of fell in love with marketing and marketing technology.

And so we started experimenting with the seeds of my current company, Evocalize way back then, kind of 2013, 2014. And so that’s what brought me into lending really. We started Evocalize in the real estate space working for the biggest portals there.

And some of them are still our investors and other supporters. And then most of the largest real estate brokerages and all of their agents and teams. And so that was our heritage.

And then we moved into lending a couple of years ago and are really excited about lending as something we’re kind of expanding through. It’s obviously kind of cousins with the residential real estate space, but it has some distinct differences too. But they obviously work really well together.

So we’ve been able to leverage some data and some learning to make lending work maybe better than it otherwise would without that real estate background.

Hannah McManus
That’s a heck of a background. That’s why they don’t put it on the website.

Matt Marx
You just said I talked too long, which you’re right.

Hannah McManus
I’m just kidding. I loved it. I didn’t know that you had started Evocalize 10 years ago. I think that’s awesome. So let’s talk a little bit about digital marketing. With AI, I know AI is not new, but AI feels new to a lot of us.

With AI really shaping digital marketing, what are some essential lead gen strategies that loan officers and real estate agents should really be focused on going into 2025?

Matt Marx
Totally. It’s a great question. So AI is the buzzword of the last couple of years, right?

I think, joked aside, it’s probably rightly so. I’ll start kind of with before AI, and then I’ll fold AI into the answer to your question. I think generally, like if you think of why we started our company, the biggest companies in the world, the Amazons and the Kochs and the Walmarts, they can afford to hire large marketing teams, or agencies, both in some cases, and onboard a bunch of data.

And they do that, and they spend lots and lots of money in Meta and in Google and in other places online, because their buyers are online, right? The people who purchase from them are online most of the time. And so like dollars have really shifted, as we all know, as marketers from kind of TV and print and billboards and all this stuff to digital.

Well, the smaller folks were a little bit left behind by that movement for a long time, up until kind of the COVID era. And they were forced to go digital in a lot of ways, and lending is kind of different from that. But they didn’t really have the tools, and they don’t have the budget, by and large, to hire.

I mean, you need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a month, at least, in marketing dollars to be able to afford the teams and budget that you’re dealing with. And so when you’re spending hundreds or thousands of dollars, you really…that’s why we built the company we built.

It was like, how do you take that agency, the best agency in the world, and use technology to apply it so that you don’t have to pay those bills to have that type of benefit for your business? So that’s why we started. And really, we started with a lot of automation, right?

So it’s, how are you as a loan officer going to expand your sphere, meet local real estate agents, because a lot of your business comes through that avenue, right, and get beyond just the people that you know already, right? And so how do you grow that? Well, you have to be online.

So we call it being digitally omnipresent. So people exist in different channels. Some people, everyone listening will know. Some people are, swore off Facebook long ago, right? And they’re not logging in. Facebook, you know, the enemy.

Other people don’t do YouTube, right? And so you kind of have to be everywhere in your local market or the markets you serve. And you have to have the right audiences and the people in there.

And you have to even pop your existing database and your existing customers where they are. And there’s so much spam, as you and I were talking about earlier, around text and a lot of new laws there. Email, a lot of spam on email.

I hit delete, delete, delete, delete, you know, and spam mark in all my emails. So how do you get in front of people? So that’s kind of the first thing is, if you’re a loan officer in the local market, you know, even if you’re a lender, you have to be digitally present.

So when someone is ready to go into the home buying or process or to just start thinking about a loan for anything really, financing for anything, that you’re the neighborhood expert, you’re the local expert, you’re the expert that they think about and you gain credibility. So that’s the first thing I’ll say. And then secondly, we talk about lead generation, which is, okay, if we plan the, if we’re always present and we’re there online, people are seeing our face and seeing our messaging and we’re distributing content to them and we’re there.

Now, how are we there when the customer is ready, right? And, or when they’re ready at least to make contact and start talking about a loan. And if you wait for that process, you’re not online, if you’re not doing these things and AI will help you get there, you lose to the portals, right?

And so what happens is they’ll drop in for one of these lead aggregating portals, comparison shopping site in the lending industry, right? They’re, I won’t like spam them by naming them, but they’re everywhere, right? And so they’re doing the same thing every day, right?

So they’re out there paying for marketing. People don’t just come to their site as much as they try to lead you to believe, right? And so they’re paying for marketing the same way we’re talking about now, a local loan officer can be, to get someone to come to their site, to get them to generate a lead and then they nurture them until they’re ready and then they sell them at a huge markup to the industry.

So what we’re doing is saying, how do we make it easy for loan officers to do the same thing, get in front of those portals and do it much more efficiently than they could by just buying the lead. So that’s the non-AI answer. And then I can tell you how AI has kind of thrown fuel onto this thing and made it a lot more viable too. But I want to pause because I’m still talking your ear off.

Hannah McManus
No, and I want you to talk my ear off because I think this topic is so, it’s mind blowing, it’s kind of scary and I think it’s still a little unknown of like, okay, what do I do? I mean, you just talked before AI, you didn’t even mention AI yet and I already can tell some listeners are gonna be like, well, how do I know when to get in front of them? What do I do?

How do I know which sites? I can’t be on all the sites. What do I, tell me what to do. So we’re already, I don’t want to say behind the game, but like, it’s just moving so fast that there’s just no way to keep up. So before we go into AI, do you have an answer for those people? Like, where do you start? What do you do?

Matt Marx
Yep, I do. So the first thing, again, from a conceptual basis, it’s hard to be everywhere, right? And so that’s, again, that’s why we built our technology and to make it easy.

So a lot of the complexities are distracted for you, but if you’re going on your own and you want to try and make an impact, which you can do, you can go sign up for a business account through Facebook and you can go into Google and start an account. You can go into TikTok and start an account. You need to be really cognizant of what you’re doing and saying in your advertising to make sure you’re not breaking any laws, because there are a lot of rules around advertising, right?

So especially with, I think we’ll talk about later, some of the new regulations coming down the pipe, but you can log in to any of those channels. You can create an account. You can put a payment method up.

You can make design on pictures and imagery. You can go and find targeted audiences. You can upload your own customer list. You can try and basically be digital and be digitally present. You choose your objective. You try and figure out your bidding.

You try and figure out your budgeting. So there are a lot of levers. So you can take a bunch of classes and become proficient enough to kind of become present.

And so what I would do is I would think about my local market first, and I would probably choose one of those platforms. Like I would probably say, you really should be in all of them, but it’s so time consuming. You’re gonna spend tens of hours a week doing this, right?

So choose a Facebook and Instagram and go like, hey, my people are gonna be on Facebook for instance, or pick Google and say, my people are gonna be on Google. That would be my first step. Different parts of the country have different pockets that skew different directions, different demographics skew on different platforms.

And so if you’re only gonna go one, try and just make your best guess, and then go in and just start slow, right? Start with educating your customers in your local area, right? You can start with small budgets, put some content up there, just teach them.

Teach them about what’s going on in the lending industry. You wanna be known as the local expert, right? And so you really wanna just start to educate.

And then the second step, which gets more complicated, is really using data to decide when someone is ready to buy. And that’s a little harder on your own, but you can do it. And it just takes a lot of education and training.

You can watch videos, watch videos on YouTube, you can watch to get there. But I would say that’s my starting point if I’m telling people like where to get started, but I would think don’t make it scary. It doesn’t have to be scary.

Just educate, just educate, just be there, be present, right? Because most of your competitors are not. The lending industry is behind, right? And I thought real estate was behind. And the lending industry is behind real estate, right? And so you have an advantage if you get going, you really do. If you move within the next month, you have a pretty big advantage.

Hannah McManus
That’s awesome. Okay, so let’s add in AI. Let’s make it a little bit more complicated or easier, however you look at it. Talk to me a little bit how AI is kind of reshaping this whole omnipresence online.

Matt Marx
Yeah, there are a ton of different like layers to that to answer that question. So I’ll start with the first, which is AI is like this really broad term that when you break it down, like when technical people hear that, they go, yeah, like AI is so broad, it’s hard to even talk about it. But there are a number of different techniques within AI that have been around some for a little longer, some are newer, right?

So I’m just going to split a couple out and teach you about them if I can. One is called machine learning, right? And so that basically when you run any kind of advertising, for instance, the reason that Facebook and Instagram and Google are so good at bringing you results, the results you want when you set things up right, the reason they’re so good at that is they have really powerful machine learning that tries to go, who is going to be interested in this loan right now?

Who is going to be interested in clicking that thing? And they have really detailed models on all of it that break down, okay, not only where are you, what are you, what are you doing, what content did you linger on and channel, like what, right? And then they model that against all of their other customers and the customers that actually did click on a similar thing and say, okay, there are similarity modeling that look at that.

And so that’s machine learning. And then when you run a particular piece of marketing on your own, say you said, I want to choose a modest number, $100 a month, right? So you’re going to run $100 a month in that.

That $100 is learning. So it’s going out and every dollar that it spends for the things you’re doing, it’s trying to refine who it’s going after and what it’s doing. Somewhat the problem you get at low budgets if you’re going in alone is that, that $100 is working alone.

So it’s not a lot of money to try and figure out who’s going to respond to that thing you’re trying to get them to respond to. And that’s why when we go in and work with lenders, we learn, we knit all these things together. So the learnings pool, all of the different lenders that are running marketing, the learnings are a network.

So everyone who’s spending is teaching the entire system and all the models how to get smarter. So that’s the first piece I would say is like AI and really the reason why Facebook’s worth, whatever, $700 million or whatever it’s worth today, right? So that’s the, the generative AI, which is kind of the more spicy, sexy stuff that’s just come up, right?

Hannah McManus
That’s the new buzzword. I’ve heard that more than I’ve heard just AI, which I feel like AI was last year and the generative AI is this year’s buzzword.

Matt Marx
Totally, right? So, you know, Chat GPT that was the big…when was it? October, November, a couple of years ago came out, right?

And it made a big splash and kind of introduced generative AI to the broader public. You know, deep buying, a lot of companies have been working on it for a long time, but that was the coming out party and it’s just gotten better and better. And it’s a really interesting thing.

I won’t get geeky on it. I like to, but I won’t, I promise. So, but this is a, this allows AI to not only be conversational with you, like a human would be, kind of eerily so, if you haven’t spent a lot of time with it, but it also can be creative.

And I think from a marketer and a loan officer perspective and from our products, really, really helpful innovation, right? So if you think about you as a loan officer trying to figure out what content to talk about, who to talk to, it’s really difficult, right? You spend lots of time trying to write and proof and make sure it’s legally compliant and all this stuff, right?

And whereas with a lot of the generative AI that we use in our products, and now you can do through a chat with GPT or Anthropic or whoever you choose to use, it can create it for you. So you can just talk to it and tell it it’s a marketer and tell it it’s trying to reach people and ask it for language for say, new home buyer or veterans programs. How would you message to this audience?

I’m advertising in Meta and I need a headline and I need a description. And can you help me generate them? And actually some of the platforms like we’ve done have built them into their systems as well.

Only thing in this industry, because it’s so highly regulated, be very careful then with these general purpose writers that you’re not doing something illegal, like be very cognizant of all the fair lending laws, you know, fair housing laws. So that’s the other angle that you can kind of get yourself in trouble. So it’s great and powerful.

It’s also a little scary for the industry writ large, for people that wanna go kind of roll their own, how do we protect them from that? And, you know, so a little bit of both, but it’s been a real boon to the creativity. It’s for the first time the machine is being creative, right? And that’s pretty neat.

Hannah McManus
That is really neat. I use Chat GPT pretty often. I think a lot, I mean, I think almost everybody does at this point.

But I do think you’ve hit on it a lot and we’re gonna touch on it some more. Obviously we are in a very highly regulated industry and as much as we wanna say what we wanna say, we can’t all the time. And there are some new rules coming out around texting.

And so what, with the new TCPA rules coming out, I mean, what should loan officers, what should mortgage professionals kind of be aware of? What should they be doing as it goes, as it relates to, you know, reaching out to leads or using your platform to, you know, get a little bit more present on online and things like that.

Matt Marx
Yeah, it’s gonna be a pretty big, it’s a shock to the industry already. Honestly, it’s like the biggest thing that too few people are talking about, you know, like, so for those that don’t know, backing up a little bit, the FCC in the United States, the Federal Communications Commission, the United States topic, right? The FCC manages a series of laws called the TCPA or Telephone Consumer Protection Act, launched way back in 1991, it’s been amended over the years.

But they formed a working group a few years ago to try and figure out like, how do we combat some of the spam that’s going on, phone calls and text spam and physically using technology like automated dialers and automated catalogers and automated textures and all this stuff, right? Which is really how folks get scale with texting, you know, texting and calling leads. It’s hard to pick up the phone and call a human every lead, right?

It’s just, it’s difficult to do. And people don’t pick up the phone all the time. And so there’s a lot of time there. And so this working group put forward a series of changes to the law and that was ratified last December and it goes into effect this January 2025. And these TCPA changes make a few key changes. I’ll just like simplify and summarize them.

They do a bunch of other things too, but the most germane to this industry are really kind of threefold. One, the content of whatever you’re marketing has to match whatever you’re selling and what the phone call is about or the marketing is about in the outreach. So you can’t, in the prior world, you could market for real estate and then call them about mortgage or market about anything really and call them about anything or text them about anything.

You can’t do that anymore come January. So every lead, you have to be able to prove that the marketing you did related to the topic of the outreach. So that’s one. So it has to be, they call it contextually relevant. So you have to be contextually relevant. That’s a big change for the industry, right?

The second one is the contact has to be one for one. So in the old world, a lot of these portals and marketplaces, they would sell leads in the industry. They would do a bunch of marketing and get people to come to a lead form, fill out and then they have in fine print off to the side a bunch of people that they can sell it to.

And it used to be 10 years ago, they sell it to one or two or three people in kind of related industries. Now, like that’s a money printing machine, right? So these portals and marketplaces said, I’m gonna sell it to like 50 people.

So they have this whole list off to the side in fine print. That’s prohibited now. So the FCC actually uses a checklist box in their example that when a user comes in after filling out a consent form, they come in and they literally have to check who they want to call them.

The service provider that should call them. And I’ll talk about, they can talk about service provider a minute. But those are empty check boxes, right? And so it goes from a kind of one to many to a one to one. So consent has to be one to one. I want them, I want Hannah to call me now.

It’s related to mortgage servicing, right? And then the third one is the named party needs to be the one that calls or texts the customer related to automated technology. So it has to be the service provider or an authorized sales person of the service provider, which are what LOs are really considered according to this law.

They’re considered sales people for the service, for the lender, for the service provider. And it can’t go anywhere else. So it has, that lead can only be used for automated texts, automated phone calls as it relates to that lender’s product.

The really interesting nuance in these industries, you need to be able to kind of develop a database and take that database, if you move lenders, you really can’t do that anymore. In most ways, you have to, the lead will relate to the lender that was named in the consent form. And then you have to be able to document that whole flow, Hannah.

So top to bottom, you have to be able to prove that you, that all those things were true for every single lead that you have in your database.

Hannah McManus
That’s wild. It’s gonna be well-changed. So just kind of thinking best practices when we go here, I mean, can it be, do you wanna get detailed in your digital advertising, or do you wanna keep it broad so that you can talk about more things?

I mean, if I wanted to do an ad around, let’s say we got a new product and I wanna do an ad around a product, now am I limiting myself to only talk about that product when I call?

Matt Marx
It’s a really interesting nuance question. I’ve talked with some of the leading, and done podcasts with some of the leading TCPA attorneys in the space and defense attorneys. They don’t know, right?

So the reality is like, it’s gotta be litigated with case law. And so I think the problem with broad marketing is we know as marketers, right? It doesn’t work as well.

So you’re really kind of, you’re in a little bit of a yin or a yang. Do you make it broader and maybe be able to message more products, or do you make it more narrow? And then you’re tied into a product, but it works better.

Like, first time home buyer works better than a broad loan product. We know that, right? From data. So that’s a little bit of the nuance. So we’re guiding people to be compliant on each theme, still market your themes, but be compliant on the themes that you market. And document the entire pathway there.

I think the FCC and TCPA, we’re not your attorney, right? So just to like preface it, but Hannah’s not your attorney. I’m not your attorney. We might be attorneys, but we’re not your attorney.

Hannah McManus
We’ll put our own disclaimer on this episode.

Matt Marx
But I think the FCC is really not going after the people who are trying to do the right thing. You’re worried more about the frivolous lawsuits that are coming up, because the attorneys are looking at this as a goldmine. And we know already that they’re queued up.

They are ready to pounce on in late January when this thing goes in. They’ve already started some of it. Lots of folks in the industry have been hit with this already. And the liability is the scary thing, Hannah, is like, the liability is the whole stack. So it’s the person who calls.

So it could be the LO or buys the lead and calls, right? And they don’t know. It could be the marketing firm or whoever worked in the middle to do the marketing. And it can be the lender. And all of them can be sued for any violation. 

So it’s a really frightening thing when you get into like loan officers doing their own marketing that’s not engineered centrally to make sure it’s, you know, it’s locked in, all the consent forms are right, the service providers, the one in the consent form, not the LO, like all these nuances of the law, they’re hard to comply with if you don’t, you know, engineer them from top down. 

Hannah McManus
Well, that all sounds a little intense, but there has to be a reason why they put these rules in place. So there has to be a silver lining for all of us lenders and all of us loan originators and real estate agents that are still trying to market to our clients. So can you find some positivity in this? 

Matt Marx
Yeah, totally. And actually there is, right? So thank goodness, because it’s a lot to deal with otherwise. So the silver lining here, Hannah, really is that the lead generator, lead aggregators and marketplaces to sell leads to the industry. And not everyone buys leads, but lots of folks do.

There’s a lot of money spent in that industry, right? And I would argue that’s kept a lot of lenders and LOs out of the need to figure out how to digitally market and kind of kept them shackled to the past a little bit in that regard, right? But those leads are really expensive and those lead generators and aggregators, if you’ll remember what we talked about a little bit earlier, they market on the same places that we talked about earlier.

They’re going to where the people are, which is websites around the internet and Meta, which is Instagram and Facebook and Google and Google Search and YouTube and all these places, right? They’re marketing there, they’re getting a lead in. And historically they’ve sold this to a large list of people, maybe 50, even up to 50 people, the same lead.

Well, in the new world, the industry thinks that will shrink to one to two, maybe three leads. So they’re only going to be able to sell the lead a few times, which means they’re going to make far less money, which means they’re going to spend far less money in these ecosystems, in these marketplaces, which means you will have less, there are going to be fewer leads out there to buy, but you’re going to have less competition from them in ecosystems. 

And I would anticipate, I think the industry anticipates far less competition. They’re going to be battling lawsuits. They’re like dealing with what they already are. And so they’re pulling back, they’re already pulling back.

And so that’s an opportunity for you. The silver lining is it gets less expensive and more performant for you, the loan officer, to put your own system in place, to be able to do this lead generation, marketing, nurturing. And I would argue, we’ve known marketers for a long time.

You should have been doing this the whole time. It’s just hard, right? Like it’s hard, but it’s far more efficient to do it this way. Why the portals do it this way. And frankly, to shamelessly talk about what we’ve done, we built our technology, we came from the portals. We built it for them to do all this lead generation and nurturing for them, so that they can then resell it to the industry, right?

And a handful of years ago, we said, wouldn’t it be cool if we can make it easy enough for a loan officer, a real estate agent to use, and they could just press with the sponsorship of their lender. And they could just, it was all integrated together through their CRM and their Total Expert or their Salesforce instance. And they could just press a button in it.

The system did all the thousand things that it needs to do. It built all the lists and the targeting and helped you with creative and compliance and lead forms and built high-performance Google Search programs and ran on YouTube and did all that, right? Even building landing pages for each theme.

And so that’s what we built and kind of rolled out to the industry that I know you know about Hannah is the ability to hand that kind of push button 30 seconds or less, build your own portal level lead generation program as any loan officer. And that’s really the best way, most efficient way. You’re basically doing what they’re doing and you skip the entire markup of the leads.

And by the way, you need to do that anyway, because a lot of those leads are going away and you’re right in this new ecosystem. So they’re drying up. 

Hannah McManus
Well, and I mean, I think the way I heard what you just said is thank you to the TCPA rules because now you’re taking away the competition and you’re providing me a solution that I can now create my own leads with my own content that is compliant and I will be the one calling them and not buying them from somebody else.

Matt Marx
That’s exactly right. The challenge though, I don’t think I’ll quite say thank you to TCPA because I’ll get yelled at by our lending clients and everyone else, right? Is that if you’re non-compliant anywhere up, as I mentioned earlier, like you’re a loan officer and you’re running your own marketing, how does the lender, the lender’s liable for that?

They have been historically and the industry thinks they will be going forward. And so the question is, how do you enforce that? Like, do you just, a lot of folks are going through the, I think it was Allstate, I couldn’t get the insurance company wrong, one of the biggest insurance companies, just like created a list of like, these are the only people that you can buy leads from and they banned purchasing leads from anyone else.

And then a lot of folks are starting to put in technologies like ours out in the industry and saying, you can’t go market on your own because we’ve engineered this to be compliant and we’re gonna be liable either way. If you do it on your own or if we put it, so we’re gonna engineer a system for you to be able to do it. So you can press the button and do it.

And we know we can track it and monitor it and have the logs and all that. So we protect ourselves and the lender. So that’s the side effect.

Like it’s going to be really messy and scary. Like folks think this is a, you know, a hundred billion dollar, maybe more, it kind of problem for any lead generation, for the entire lead generation industry or anyone who deals with them over the next few years. It’s just a really, really big economic impact that we’re gonna have from lawsuits, class actions, DOJ, you know, action, the whole thing.

Hannah McManus
That’s wild. I feel like we could probably keep going on this topic, but I know we’re coming up on time. And we asked all of our guests this question.

Dan and Gaines wanted me to ask you what your favorite day would be and what your, what do they ask us? Your perfect day, not your favorite day. What is your perfect day?

I’m not gonna ask you that, but I’m gonna ask you is how are you planning on lending it forward in 2025? 

Matt Marx
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, from a business perspective of lending it forward, I don’t know a perfect day that, you know, that our team- 

Hannah McManus
Think about it and let your team know because they have definitely asked us. They’ve asked us.

Matt Marx
I think it’s backpacking in the mountains, but you didn’t ask me that. So, you know, I think from lending it forward, we’re just, you know, we tried to do a bunch of this education on TCPA and, you know, I’ve done a bunch of podcasts. And if you’re interested in doing it, I built a GPT speaking about AI and trained a model with lots of, hundreds and hundreds of hours of content around the TCPA law.

And so we can put the link in if anyone’s interested in that and you can go ask it questions. It’s not your attorney either and it will remind you of that. It should, it must remind you of that.

Every answer gives you, so forgive it, but it’ll even, it’s even generated forms and things for me of like, what would be an example of a compliant form? Check it all with your attorneys, but it can answer some of your questions. So those are things I think, it’s just going to be a really like, I think it’s going to be a difficult time for folks over the next, I mean, it has been a difficult time.

We’re coming out of it hopefully in the lending industry. So the last thing we need is like to have lawsuits held on the backside of it. But to me, that’s trying to educate and just get independent of Evocalized, regardless of what you’re doing, just be careful and know the law behind what you’re, what you’re doing out there.

Hannah McManus
That’s awesome. Well, if anybody listening wants to find out more about Eocalized or learn more about the TCPA laws and get a copy of that link, what’s the best way for them to find you, get ahold of you, things like that?

Matt Marx
Well, I spend the most time on LinkedIn. So I am Matthew Marx, Evocalize. If you want to find me on there, you can find me there. But a smart person told me one time, kind of the philosophy of our technology, people use the technology.

So it doesn’t matter where you are, Google me, Matthew Marx, Evocalize, and I guarantee you that we will contact me. You can also shoot me an email at Matt, matt@evocalize.com and happy to chat about any of this. 

Hannah McManus
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining Lending Forward. We’ll probably have you back next year. 

Matt Marx
We’ll see what the impacts are of the law. Hannah, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate the time.

Hannah McManus
Thanks. Thanks again for tuning into today’s episode of the Lending Forward podcast. Be sure to subscribe to our channel, follow us on Instagram at Lending Forward, on YouTube and LinkedIn.

Tune in next week for another new episode and go learn something forward today. Atlantic Bay Mortgage Group, LLC, NMLS number 72043, NMLSConsumerAccess.org is an equal opportunity lender and employer. Located at 600 Lynnhaven Parkway, Suite 100, Virginia Beach, Virginia, 23452.

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